Libro.fm Podcast – Episode 33: “Interview with Claire Lombardo”

On today’s episode, we sat down with New York Times bestselling author Claire Lombardo. We discussed her new book, Same As It Ever Was, as well as her previous novel, The Most Fun We Ever Had. We dove into her love for writing about family dynamics and the process of crafting realistic dialogue. She also shares what it’s like to be a bookseller at Prairie Lights Books and offered us book recommendations.

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About our guest

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Audiobooks by Claire Lombardo

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Audiobooks we discussed

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Full transcription

[Intro Song]

Karen Farmer:

Hi, and welcome to the Libro.fm Podcast where we talk to authors, narrators, booksellers, and more. I’m Karen.

Craig Silva:

And I’m Craig. On today’s episode, we sat down in person with Claire Lombardo, who wrote The Most Fun We Ever Had and the forthcoming Same As It Ever Was, which comes out next month in June at the time of recording.

Karen Farmer:

Yes. We just had such a good time with Claire. We were in Cincinnati at Winter Institute. We, I think, became great friends. We know all about her trip to the zoo to see some penguins. She is just such a delightful person.

Craig Silva:

Yes, we were literally texting the next day. We had a group chat going about penguins. It was very lovely. So, Claire, if you’re listening, thank you for sending us the penguin photo. I’m glad that you made it to the zoo.

Karen Farmer:

We also were so lucky as to receive an advanced reader’s copy for her new book, which is coming out, and I have to say, I absolutely love it, so I cannot wait for you all to hear more about it on the episode and to get your hands on it soon.

Craig Silva:

So good. I will play a clip from Claire’s book and then we will roll the interview. And as always, stick around after the interview to hear what Karen and I are currently listening to. And maybe we’ll tease some upcoming episodes.

Karen Farmer:

Yeah, roll the clip.

Audiobook Clip:

Other people overwhelmed her. Strange, perhaps, for a woman who’d added four beings to the universe of her own reluctant volition, but a fact nonetheless: Marilyn rued the inconvenient presence of bod­ies, bodies beyond her control, her understanding; bodies beyond her favor. She rued them now, from her shielded spot beneath the ginkgo tree, where she was hiding from her guests. She’d always had that knack for entertaining, but it drained her, fully, time and time again, decades of her father’s wealthy clients and her husband’s humorless colleagues; of her children’s temperamental friends; of her transitory neighbors and ever-shifting roster of customers.

And yet, today: 100-odd near strangers in her backyard, humans in motion, staying in motion, formally clad; tipsy celebrants of the union of their eldest daughter, Wendy, people who were her responsibility for this evening, when she already had so much on her plate — not literally, for she’d neglected to take advantage of the farm-fresh menu spread over three extra-long card tables, but elementally — four girls for whose presences she was biologically and socially responsible, polka-dotting the lawn in their summer pastels. The fruits of her womb, implanted repeatedly by the sweetness of her husband, who was currently nowhere to be found.

Craig Silva:

Hello, everyone. Today, we are here in person with author Claire Lombardo. Welcome to the podcast, Claire.

Claire Lombardo:

Thank you so much for having me.

Karen Farmer:

Yes, we are so excited that you could find the time to chat with us amidst the conference and exploring Cincinnati. We would love if you could introduce yourself to our listeners and tell us a little more about what you’re up to in the world.

Claire Lombardo:

Oh, sure. Yeah. No, it’s a delight to be here. Thanks for having me. I’m Claire Lombardo. I am a novelist. I guess, I can call myself a novelist now. I have a second book coming out this summer. My first novel was The Most Fun We Ever Had. It came out in 2019. And my second book, Same As It Ever Was, is coming out from Doubleday Books in 2024. So I’m here at Winter Institute. It’s very overwhelming, but meeting a lot of really lovely people and lovely booksellers, some of whom I got to meet almost five years ago and get to see again. So yeah, it’s been really, really fun so far.

Karen Farmer:

Awesome. Well, I definitely want to ask you questions about the new novel that you just mentioned. I’m so excited, huge fan of your work, so cannot wait to have it in my hands. What can you share with us about the novel?

Claire Lombardo:

Sure. Well, this is not a privilege for you. You get my very unedited version because this is sort of my first time talking, not my first time ever talking about it, but I guess I’m still figuring out how to talk about it. So it’s called Same As It Ever Was. It is about a woman named Julia Ames who, when we meet her at the beginning of the novel, is in her late 50s, happily married, living a very comfortable life in the suburbs of Chicago. And then she runs into an old friend who she both did not expect to and hoped not ever to see again. And then she sort of starts to spiral. We go back in time then two different phases in Julia’s life.

So it’s almost a panoramic exploration of one woman’s life, which is what I love about writing is that you can push open whatever doors that you want. So with Julia, this character sort of came to me and then I got to do the really fun part of just being really nosy and figuring out whatever I could about her. So we see Julia in the present for half the book, and then the other half is her childhood in Chicago, this very pivotal friendship she had in her mid-30s and then back to when she meets her husband, Mark. So we get to see all these different critical points of her life and how they shaped who she is.

Karen Farmer:

Oh, thank you. I am so excited for this book. One of the quotes that I read in a description of it said that at its heart is what it takes to form and keep a family. And that sentiment also feels very much in line with your first novel as well. And it’s something that I love about The Most Fun We Ever Had. So I was just curious what it is about that question that is so compelling to you and drives your writing?

Claire Lombardo:

That’s such a good question. I find family dynamics so fascinating, which I guess is why I’ve written now two really long family stories, but I come from a big family, maybe that has something to do with it. But I had a similar phenomenon happen with The Most Fun We Ever Had, which is that I started with a character who I was interested in, and then I realized how we’re all shaped and defined by the people in our lives for better or for worse. So in Most Fun, it was the Violet character, and then I discovered she had a sister, and then I discovered she had parents, as do we all in some shape or form. So the same thing happened in Same As It Ever Was where I was sort of, “None of us exist in a vacuum try as we might sometimes.”

So I think I’m interested in that we don’t choose our family. Sometimes we do. So I’m interested in either side of that situation. I also just find it’s more fun to write about colorful casts of characters and the bigger the family. I remember when I was a graduate student, the novelist, Margot Livesey said that there are two kinds of families in fiction, messy families and tidy families. And authors tend to skew towards one or the other. I very much tend toward messiness, and that’s what ended up happening in Same As It Ever Was too. Julia had a husband and then she had two kids, and then she had her husband’s very close friends who are like family to her. And then she has a mother and she has a father. And I got to keep digging and digging and finding all these new people to spy on. Yeah.

Karen Farmer:

Awesome. I love that.

Craig Silva:

I read in the New York Times that The Most Fun We Ever Had started as a short story to kill time while you were in social work school. And I’m just curious how it went from being a hobby to being a bestseller full-length novel. How did that happen?

Claire Lombardo:

I’m still not entirely sure how that happened, but I started social work school, graduate school to become a therapist the same week that I really seriously started writing, which I didn’t consider it a novel at the time, like you said, it was just this really long story that I just kept writing and writing. And over a couple of months, I found that I was spending far more time writing fiction than I was studying or doing the things that I was supposed to be doing. And I had done social work fieldwork prior to going to school. So I think that was part of it too, is that I had the hands-on experience and then to suddenly go from that to go to the sterile pedagogical textbook side of things, I found it really underwhelming and boring.

But I also just became enraptured by this family. So I dropped out of school for the second time in my life. People don’t like when I talk to their kids about this and I’m like, “I dropped out of school a bunch of times and everything still turned out okay.” But I dropped out of school and I told myself that I would give myself a year to devote to the novel. I had a bunch of weird temp jobs to keep myself afloat, but I told myself I would take a year, and if nothing happened, I would go back to school. And in that time, I applied to MFA programs and then it all kept going from there. I stuck with the book and then I ended up- .. I kept going from there. I stuck with the book, and then I ended up having an 800-page draft by the time I started graduate school for creative writing. And yeah, it’s one of the most wonderful things that’s ever happened to me, and I’m still very, very, very grateful for all the sort of ways that my life turned in directions I wasn’t expecting because I was expecting my life to look very, very, very different. And I was expecting to be a therapist who just read a lot of fiction, so, yeah. Yeah, I don’t really know either.

Karen Farmer:

That’s so beautiful. And with all of these things that you’ve done in the world, I’m guessing that your day to day now at this point looks a lot different than it did before you were writing and as you’re saying, when you started working on this novel. So what has that process been like to be like, “I am a full-time writer. This is what I’m doing now”?

Claire Lombardo:

It’s wild. Yeah. It’s funny. When I started graduate school, it was the first time I was being paid to write. I was making $18,000 a year total, but all I had to do was write. And so I had enough money to pay my rent, and I was just given the gift of time, which is the greatest possible thing you could give a writer. And I didn’t write for the first several months of graduate school because I was just like, “What do I do with this?” Because I was so used to writing on the subway on my way to work or writing on my phone, on my lunch breaks or writing… I was a nanny for a while, and I would come home and I was furious and really tired, and I would just write to kind of have this little piece of my day that was my own.

And then suddenly it was like, you just have 24 hours a day to write. And I didn’t know what to do with that. And so I think in a way that was a good lesson because I slowly sort of figured out how to treat my writing like a job when I was a graduate student. And now I do just sometimes it just feels like it’s such a gift of time and I really do. That is my approach is that I do try to treat it not like a nine-to-five job, but in the same sort of structured way that I’ve treated previous jobs I’ve had. And it’s incredible. I truly cannot believe that my job is my job. I feel so lucky. I mean, I worked hard, but I also, there’s a lot of factors that go into getting to do that, and a lot of them are luck, and I feel very, very lucky that I get to do the thing I love. So yeah. Awesome.

Craig Silva:

That’s amazing. The audiobook for your first novel was beautifully narrated by Emily Rankin, and I was curious, what was your involvement there? Did you meet and discuss the characters or did you just get something sent to you? What did that look like for you?

Claire Lombardo:

Yeah, she did such an amazing job. I didn’t have a ton of involvement. They sent me a few samples and she was the one I chose and she did an incredible job. And I think the thing that I love about is it sociopathic to say that I’ve listened to my own audiobook?

Karen Farmer:

I love that you have. Some authors tell us they’ve never listened to it. And I’m always like, “How?” The day I got it, I’d be like, “This is what I’m doing.”

Craig Silva:

Yeah, for real.

Claire Lombardo:

Ceaselessly. Okay, thank you. I did listen to it. And I think the thing that’s so incredible is that she doesn’t do voices, but you can always tell what character you’re with. And that was, yeah, I mean, just such a wonderful, I don’t know, way to see your book come to life in a different medium. I love audiobooks. I listen to audiobooks all the time, so I guess I was nervous because a bad narrator can ruin a book and she did just an incredible job, so yeah.

Craig Silva:

How long are the samples that get sent to you out of curiosity?

Claire Lombardo:

Oh gosh, I don’t remember. I want to just say a couple of minutes.

Craig Silva:

God, that’s so scary having to choose. I want you to read my 30-hour book based off listening to two minutes, someone talking.

Claire Lombardo:

And I don’t even think it’s your book that you’re hearing them read. As I recall, don’t quote me on that, but I think it is just-

Craig Silva:

Don’t quote you on that. We’re on the podcast.

Claire Lombardo:

Sorry. Yes.

Craig Silva:

We’re quoting you-

Claire Lombardo:

One of you said that. Yeah, I think it was… Well, and I tend to be a little obsessive, so I went and looked and listened to samples of other books that they’d narrated. Because I do recall seeing other narrators and looking at books that I could see as being comps to mind because someone reading a fantasy novel isn’t necessarily listening to someone do that is not necessarily going to be helpful to me in terms of how that person’s going to read my sleepy… Not sleepy. That’s a terrible word to describe a book, marketing-wise. My not fantasy novel.

Craig Silva:

I didn’t see that on the cover. A sleepy little novel.

Claire Lombardo:

Yeah, don’t tell anyone I said that again.

Craig Silva:

Speaking of audiobooks, I could not for the life of me figure out who’s narrating your next book. It’s not listed anywhere.

Claire Lombardo:

Me neither.

Craig Silva:

Oh, me neither. Okay. Well, there goes my question. I was going to ask you any spicy details about it.

Claire Lombardo:

No, no, and I don’t. I literally finished the edits of my book last night when I got home from dinner, so I am assuming that that’s in the works. I’ll let you know when I find out.

Craig Silva:

Yeah, I look forward to it.

Karen Farmer:

Exciting. So I love the audiobook as well. And one of the things that I think really shines is your dialogue in the audiobook, because I think you handle dialogue really uniquely. It’s very realistic, in that in real life, people don’t always finish their sentences and they’re not always a closed unit as a sentence. Sometimes the train of thought blurs together or people stammer their way through things and you put that on the page, which I really love. So it came across so beautifully in the audio and just was so realistic, and I was just curious if there was anything you could share with our listeners about how you think about dialogue as you’re crafting your characters.

Claire Lombardo:

Yeah, thank you. It’s funny. Dialogue is my favorite thing to write, and it comes fairly naturally to me. It’s something I don’t think consciously about a whole lot, but one thing that is very important to me is what you just described. I want my dialogue to sound like people talking, and most people are not terribly eloquent. And I’m sure in the last 10 minutes I’ve interrupted myself. I’ve used a word that I didn’t intend to use. I’ve interrupted one of you. That’s what we do when I just did it now. And so that’s something that is important to me in my fiction because I try to be honest about other parts of people’s lives and the insides of their houses and the insides of their heads and their relationships. And so with my dialogue… I also do…

One thing I tell my students, and this is advice I follow myself, which is not true for all the advice I give my students is read your dialogue aloud. So if you are a writer and you want to sort of vet your own dialogue, I guess if you are reading your dialogue aloud and you are stumbling over your sentences or you feel like you’re sounding strangely formal when you don’t want to, that is something that I’ve always found incredibly helpful is, “Is this what actual people sound like?” I will say readers tend to seem to be divided on my use of M-dashes and interruptions. Some people find it really annoying. I see when people tag me in negative reviews on Instagram, which please don’t do that to the writer, I say that. But people either seem to find it annoying, “Why are people always interrupting each other?”

But it’s like, “I don’t know.” Maybe that’s just my family, but that’s how a lot of my conversations go, and it’s not always hostile. I think it’s also the sign of a fruitful conversation if you’re both not just sitting and waiting for your turn to talk. So that’s kind of my approach. And I love writing dialogue, and I got to write for television very briefly, and that was so much fun too, because it’s all dialogue. You have to do most of the work in dialogue, and it really can do a lot of the heavy lifting in a novel. So I’m glad that I enjoy it.

Karen Farmer:

Yeah, thank you. That’s such an amazing answer. And as you were talking about that, I remembered this distinct moment in your book where the husband and wife were having a conversation and he says, “What’s wrong?” And she’s like, “How do you know something’s wrong?” And he says, “You haven’t finished a single sentence since we started this conversation.” And I looked back up the page and I was like, “No, she didn’t.” I loved that.

Claire Lombardo:

Thank you.

Craig Silva:

Before we ask this next question, do you still work at Prairie Lights Books or no?

Claire Lombardo:

I do. Yeah.

Craig Silva:

Okay, cool. I just wanted to make sure I was going to word this differently if you didn’t.

Claire Lombardo:

Oh, sure. Thanks.

Craig Silva:

And now I don’t have to chop and screw it.

Karen Farmer:

Edit it out.

Claire Lombardo:

Oh, good.

Craig Silva:

According to your bio, you are a bookseller at the beautiful bookstore Prairie Lights Books. That’s amazing. And I’m curious, what are your favorite parts about book-selling?

Claire Lombardo:

Ooh, that’s such a good question. Yeah. I started working at Prairie Lights, my indie in Iowa City about a year ago, just a couple of afternoons a week. My favorite parts, I just love it there. I mean, it’s a bookstore that’s been around since… I never remember this, I think 1974. It’s been around for a long time, and it’s an institution in our little college town. I love how it feels in the bookstore. I love that even around the holidays when things are super crazy, people are coming in with sort of a common goal or mindset. People are coming in because they like to read or because their husband likes to read or because their grandkids really want the next book in some series and book people tend to be the best people. So I think it’s good for morale. It’s also been really interesting having been on the writing-

It’s been really interesting having been on the writing side of publishing for a few years to see the business end and see how books get chosen, the sort of philosophy of even just design, how we lay out the store and how we choose what gets to be at the forefront. I also think there’s… Jan Weissmiller who’s the owner of the bookstore now is so thoughtful and she’s so well-read. She reads more than anyone I know, but she’s so good at looking at someone or talking to someone for just a couple of minutes and being able to say, “I think you would really like this.”

And that’s obviously what book sell… I’m just describing book selling. You don’t need me to do that at a bookseller conference, but there’s something so lovely about that and I think it requires a lot of empathy and a lot of awareness of other people. And so to get to witness that and to get to do some of that too, and have books that I’m really excited about that maybe I’ve read in galleys or was sent to Blurb and then I just get to yell about that to strangers, it’s amazing. So it’s been really lovely to be welcomed there. I have a lot of fun there.

Craig Silva:

How does it feel when you see your book on the shelf at the bookstore?

Claire Lombardo:

It’s weird. I’ve never sold my own book. I’ve seen it be hand-sold because Jan hand-sells my book a lot, which is really lovely, but I try not to look at it. Once I had to pull it off the shelf for some reason, I don’t remember why, but I was being very furtive because I felt sort of like a psychopath. But yeah, so I have not hand-sold my own book to anyone.

Craig Silva:

When it gets hand-sold, are they like, “That’s the author over there,” and make you sign it.

Claire Lombardo:

Sometimes and sometimes not. I guess it depends on the customer.

Craig Silva:

What is your favorite book to hand-sell?

Claire Lombardo:

My favorite book to hand-sell. Can I tell you three?

Karen Farmer:

Oh yes, please.

Claire Lombardo:

Thank you. Okay. My easiest hand-sell is The Sentence by Louise Erdrich, which is a great sort of book selling novel. It’s also just such a great novel. I have family in Minneapolis. I was in Minneapolis during George Floyd, and that’s a lot of what that book is about, that time period during COVID. So that is a very easy sell. I’m not the only person to be hand-selling that book.

Two other books, Fellowship Point by Alice Elliott Dark, which I imagine is sort of selling my book. You have to say it’s 550 pages long, however… Which I never do for my own book, but it is so easy to do for Fellowship Point. That’s a book that I just fell in love with when I was reading it. And even though it’s really long, I couldn’t stop reading it, and I was really sad when it was over.

And then my third, which I get really excited about, is American Mermaid by Julia… I’m not sure how you say her last name. It was so good. My editor had sent me a copy of it and I was almost crying, laughing in my bed, which never happened. I mean, it doesn’t ever happen to me, but it rarely happens to me. And so that’s a book that I have been pushing on as many people as possible.

Craig Silva:

Amazing.

Karen Farmer:

Thank you.

Craig Silva:

You just hand sold three copies.

Claire Lombardo:

My work is done.

Karen Farmer:

So as we’re getting close to the end of our time together, we have a little lightning round for you where we’re going to ask you some sillier light-hearted questions, and you don’t need to think about them too much.

Claire Lombardo:

Okay.

Karen Farmer:

I think Craig has the first one.

Craig Silva:

Yes. Which New York Times puzzle game do you feel you were best at?

Claire Lombardo:

I do all of them.

Craig Silva:

We do some research here.

Claire Lombardo:

Okay. Well, I don’t want to brag. I’m very good at spelling bee. I have a brain and I have since I was a kid. And when I was a kid, sorry, this is a really long answer to a lightning round.

Craig Silva:

No, I’m loving it.

Karen Farmer:

Great.

Claire Lombardo:

In the Chicago Tribune on the puzzle page, it was called The Jumble, and it’s the same idea, but it’s like there’s seven letters and little bubbles and you have to figure out what the word is. There’s something about my brain. My brain is not mathematical at all, but I can look at that and the word form. So I love spelling bee so much. I think I’m on a 474-day crossword streak at the moment.

Craig Silva:

Oh my lord.

Karen Farmer:

That’s amazing.

Claire Lombardo:

Thank you. I also really like Connections. I’ve not completely committed to Connections. Oh, and I play Wordle with one of my friends, and it’s our way of telling each other that we’re alive every day.

Karen Farmer:

I love that.

Claire Lombardo:

So I love all of them equally.

Craig Silva:

Amazing.

Claire Lombardo:

But spelling bee has gotten me through some dark writing days.

Craig Silva:

I was going to brag about my eight-day streak on the mini, but now I won’t.

Karen Farmer:

That’s impressive too. The mini counts and it’s great.

Claire Lombardo:

It does. It does.

Karen Farmer:

If not a therapist, a novelist or a bookseller, what would you be?

Claire Lombardo:

Oh, gosh. Something with animals, I think.

Craig Silva:

Running a [inaudible 00:24:55] retirement home.

Claire Lombardo:

Yes. I might just work at an animal shelter or something. That sounds like a very Pollyanna answer, but something that I could be around a lot of dogs all the time.

Craig Silva:

All right. It’s a friend’s night out. Bowling or escape room or something completely different?

Claire Lombardo:

An escape room is my purest nightmare.

Craig Silva:

Also hate an escape room.

Claire Lombardo:

I’ve never been to one. I never will go to one. I guess bowling. I’m not a good bowler, but it’s a nice vibe. Never an escape room is the real answer.

Craig Silva:

Let’s go out and do work.

Claire Lombardo:

Exactly.

Karen Farmer:

I actually found this question online and I laughed so hard, and I’m like, “I can’t wait to ask Claire.” If you could only use one punctuation mark for the rest of your life, what would you choose?

Claire Lombardo:

God, I love a semicolon, but I really love an em dash. I think I’d have to go with a semicolon though. It has a broader usage.

Craig Silva:

It’s more versatile.

Claire Lombardo:

I just love a semicolon. Sometimes I look… And I was just editing my own very intense copy, editing my own manuscript, and I couldn’t tell you how many semicolons, but there’s a lot. I have a friend who told me once, I’m the only person that she knows who uses semicolons in my text messages, so I guess I would have to choose the semicolon.

Karen Farmer:

I love that.

Craig Silva:

All right. Our next and last question before we are going to ask you for book recommendations is Instagram story time, where we comb through your Instagram, pick a photo and then ask for the story on it.

Claire Lombardo:

Uh-oh.

Craig Silva:

It’s an easy one.

Claire Lombardo:

Okay.

Craig Silva:

I actually have a picture of it here if that’s helpful for you.

Claire Lombardo:

Is it my dog?

Craig Silva:

It’s not your dog. There were so many cute dog photos.

Karen Farmer:

We really enjoyed your dog photos.

Claire Lombardo:

Oh my Post-It board. There’s my Post-It board.

Karen Farmer:

So we love talking to authors about this. I think Abraham Verghese had a picture of his white board that was-

Craig Silva:

Grady Hendrix also had a-

Karen Farmer:

Grady Hendrix.

Craig Silva:

… crazy mood board,

Karen Farmer:

And everyone does it in a slightly different way. So can you tell us about how you structure this beautiful wall of… Are they index cards?

Claire Lombardo:

Those are index cards. I have moved on to Post-Its because they’re a little easier to use. And that purple stuff in the background, if you want me to get really nerdy and technical, it’s called extruded polystyrene, and it is used to insulate houses. I got it from my mentor in grad school, Ethan Kanan, who I believe still is rehabbing a house. And he finished reading a draft of the most fun we ever had. He brought me a present, which was three enormous sheets of extruded polystyrene. It’s essentially just like foam core, but that was his way of telling me, “You’re ready to keep on with this.”

And now I do it for everything. I do it for short stories. I have a new board. It’s the same board on the back, but new Post-Its for same as it ever was. I guess it wasn’t during COVID, but I’m in New York, or I’m not in New York, I’m in Iowa City and my editor is in New York. So we did a lot of Zoom calls and stuff when we were working on the editorial side of the book. And there was one day last summer, I guess, where I just sort of did the like Vanna White, “Here’s what this Post-It said,” and Leah was like, “Move this there, move this…” So it was sort of this interactive thing.

But it’s a really wonderful way to concretize or make visual something that is so ungraspable. Like you can’t hold a book in your head. You can’t really conceptualize the full arc of a story or I can’t at least. So it’s a really wonderful way to be able to see. We’ve spent 46 Post-Its with Helen and maybe that’s too many or maybe it’s not enough, or we’ve spent 17 Post-Its with the son arc or the marriage arc or whatever. And so it’s kind of a way to quantify something that is not easily quantifiable. So I love it. And I also just think it’s pretty. It’s a piece of installation art in my office.

Craig Silva:

For listeners who can’t see it, one, go to Claire’s Instagram, but it’s extremely color coded. Are these different characters or different arcs, or what do the colors mean?

Claire Lombardo:

I think in that iteration each color is a character. And so I think there’s the fewest red Post-Its, I think those are Jonah because he had the fewest POVs, or maybe it’s Grace. I don’t know. So I did that per character. Sometimes I do it per story arc, so sometimes it’s like, this is the plot about… And same as it ever was, this is the part about Julia’s childhood, so it’s green. This is the part about Julia meeting her husband, so it’s purple, whatever.

So you can do it for whatever makes the most sense. For most fun, it made a ton of sense to do it per character, because there are seven POV characters, and I was able to see that Grace isn’t getting a lot of air time. And then for something like that, I was able to realize maybe she doesn’t need a lot of air time. Maybe she’s not getting a lot of air time because she doesn’t have as much going on. So it’s fun in that way. I encourage people to do it. And I’ve had friends who call me and are like, “Oh my God, this is mind-blowing.” I’m like, “Yeah, Post-It notes. Who knew?”

Craig Silva:

You need to teach a masterclass.

Claire Lombardo:

I know. I would be honored.

Karen Farmer:

We both also really appreciate the beautiful Wilco poster that can be seen in this photo.

Claire Lombardo:

Oh, thank you. I was at that show. When was that? 2003? I was a wee, wee one. But yes, I’ve seen them like 20 times that.

Karen Farmer:

Oh, I’m jealous.

Craig Silva:

So we end every episode with asking you for recommendations. What are you reading right now or excited about that our listeners should know about?

Claire Lombardo:

Oh God. This is when I always forget that I’ve ever read a book. Oh, right now, I’m reading The Berry Pickers by Amanda Peters, which has been recommended to me by a lot of booksellers. It’s wonderful. I’m listening to the audio, actually, my Libro audio. I literally am. That wasn’t like a plug, but-

Craig Silva:

Don’t worry. The whole episode’s a plug.

Claire Lombardo:

I’m listening to that. I usually have a book I’m listening to and then a book I’m reading before bed. I just started… My boss at Prairie Lights, Jan Weismiller is very excited about a book called The Fountain Overflows by Rebecca West, which came out I think in the forties, but it’s essentially just a very funny, very timely family novel. So I was reading that. It became a little too… My brain was not ready for it, but it’s very good. I feel like I’m reading something else. I just started reading The Shining for the first time. I’d never read any Stephen King, and so I started reading The Shining last week, and then I needed something a little less dark, so I started The Berry Pickers, which is not less dark. It’s just dark in a different way. So I think that’s what I’m reading right now.

Craig Silva:

Awesome. Thank you.

Karen Farmer:

Well, Claire, thank you so much again for taking the time to meet with us. It’s been such a pleasure and we can’t wait for your new book this June.

Claire Lombardo:

Oh, thank you. It’s been a delight. Thank you, guys, for having me.

Craig Silva:

Thank you for listening to that interview, everybody. I hope you enjoyed it. We certainly did. You all should run out and buy Claire’s new book, if it is post-June, or if it’s not, put it on your to-do list.

Karen Farmer:

Yes. And as you now know, you can go visit her in her bookstore and have her recommend books to you.

Craig Silva:

What more could you ask for, honestly?

Karen Farmer:

Not much.

Craig Silva:

Speaking of books, Karen, what are you reading right now?

Karen Farmer:

I am so-

Craig Silva:

Or what have you just read?

Karen Farmer:

So excited to tell you. You’re going to love this book. It is a horror collection.

Craig Silva:

Not a big fan of horror.

Karen Farmer:

That is a lie. I purchased this recently when Libro.FM was at our off-site in Chicago. We went to several bookstores. I’m sure you’re all shocked to hear that. At City Lit Books, I found this book. And before I tell you the name, I will tell you my selection methodology. It was one of two books in the horror section that had a shelf talker. I can’t remember what the other one was, but I had read it and this one said something like, “This is by far the weirdest, most upsetting horror book I’ve ever read. I recommended it to everyone I know.”

So I bought it and this week, I read it in one sitting. It’s called, Things Have Gotten Worse Since Last We Spoke and Other Misfortunes by Boston writer, Eric LaRocca. Oh my gosh, could not put it down. There are three longish, short stories. They’re not novellas by any means, but they’re longer than your typical short story. They’re all wildly different. But yeah, I am a huge fan and I did notice when I purchased this one that he had other books on the shelf, so you can imagine what my next step is. I will also veer into the territory of stealing a little bit of thunder. But when I opened this book, the first blurb inside of it was by horror novelist, Stephen Graham Jones. As the universe would have it, on the same week that I saw this blurb, we interviewed Stephen Graham Jones for the podcast today, which was absolutely a highlight. That episode will be coming out in the next month or so, so stay tuned for that.

Craig Silva:

Again, not to jump the shark, but wow. Is that not the phrase?

Karen Farmer:

That’s not what that means.

Craig Silva:

You know how I like to butcher phrases. Would you like to teach me what it means?

Karen Farmer:

I think you meant jump the gun.

Craig Silva:

Jump the gun, that’s what I was looking for. What’s jump the shark then?

Karen Farmer:

To become irrelevant or uncool.

Craig Silva:

Like me right now?

Karen Farmer:

So jump the shark. What were you going to say?

Craig Silva:

Yes. So not to jump the gun, but yes, we did interview with Stephen Graham Jones this morning and it was amazing, like you said. I like when he turned his Zoom video on. There was a Scream mask behind him and horror paraphernalia and I was like, “Oh yeah, this is going to be a good one.”

Karen Farmer:

He had a Stephen King ball cap on.

Craig Silva:

Stephen King ball cap on, yeah.

Karen Farmer:

He was amazing. I love him. I love him so much. Okay, I distracted us. What are you currently reading or what have you just read and enjoyed?

Craig Silva:

I finished literally yesterday, Gunkle Abroad by Steven Rowley.

Karen Farmer:

I’m so jealous. I haven’t read it yet. Tell me everything.

Craig Silva:

It’s so, so good. We just got to interview Steven Rowley, so if you go back in episode or two, you could listen to that where we talk about Guncle Abroad. At the time, I hadn’t read it yet because it was too early. I didn’t have the ARC yet, but I have since got the ALC and listened to it and it was unbelievably good. It was so fun to dive back into the world of Patrick and the kids and the drama there. Now they’re out of America. They’re on a worldwide trip and it’s an adventure and it’s full of family dynamics and laugh out loud funny, just like the first one. I find myself giggling non-stop as I’m bopping around the house doing laundry with my AirPods in. So if you liked the first one, you’ll absolutely adore this one. And if you haven’t listened to the first one, go do that. It’s great.

Karen Farmer:

I’m so happy for you that you loved this because I know that the first one was very special for you, so I’m glad that it has continued.

Craig Silva:

Yes, big fan. So I guess we already teased upcoming episodes, so that’s exciting.

Karen Farmer:

Well, there’s one more we could mention.

Craig Silva:

Ooh, yes. Libro has a big old birthday coming up.

Karen Farmer:

Yeah, numero 10.

Craig Silva:

The 10th anniversary of Libro being a company.

Karen Farmer:

Can you believe it?

Craig Silva:

Yes.

Karen Farmer:

Time flies.

Craig Silva:

It’s awesome.

Karen Farmer:

It is awesome.

Craig Silva:

Yes. So we are doing a 10th anniversary episode where in the beginning of each episode we always say, “Where we interview booksellers, bookstores and more.” It’s been a while since we’ve talked to a bookstore. So for the 10th anniversary episode, it is all bookstores. We are going to interview three or four or five. We’re not sure yet.

Karen Farmer:

However many will talk to us.

Craig Silva:

Yes, whoever says yes. Booksellers and bookstore owners and talk to them about their bookstore and audiobooks and their local communities. It’s going to be a grand old time.

Karen Farmer:

I can’t wait. One might even call it an extravaganza.

Craig Silva:

Oh my God. New jingle coming soon.

Karen Farmer:

Well, everyone, thank you so much for listening. Just as a reminder, if you don’t have a Libro.fm membership yet, you can start one right now. You can use the promo code SWITCH and you’ll get three audiobooks for your first month of membership instead of just one. So really, really good time to consider signing up.

Craig Silva:

That is a crazy deal, so go do that.

Karen Farmer:

I know. I know.

Craig Silva:

And if you don’t follow the podcast, please do, and if you do follow it, please rate the podcast. It is very helpful for us.

Karen Farmer:

And as always, thanks for listening. That one.

Craig Silva:

I’m leaving all of them in.

Karen Farmer:

And as always, thanks for listening.

Craig Silva:

That’s the take, just so you know.

Karen Farmer:

It better not be.

Craig Silva:

Oh, it will be.

Karen Farmer:

I’ll quit. I will quit.

[Outro Music]