Libro.fm Podcast – Episode 09: “Interview with Ann Patchett”

On today’s episode we travelled to Nashville, TN and sat down in-person for a conversation with author and owner of Parnassus Books, Ann Patchett, to discuss bookstores, audiobooks, licorice, and more.

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About our guest

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The audiobooks we discussed

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Full transcription

Karen Farmer:

Hi, I’m Karen.

Craig Silva:

And I’m Craig.

Karen Farmer:

Welcome to the Libro fm Podcast where Craig and I talk to authors, narrators, book sellers and more.

Craig Silva:

This month’s episode is actually a little different than normal because Karen and I recorded it live in person, which we’ve never done. We went on a team outing, I guess, to Nashville with both Karen and I and the rest of our product team, and we got to do a ton of awesome stuff, including recording a live podcast with Ann Patchett in her bookstore.

Karen Farmer:

And huge shout out to you, Craig, because this was arguably the most complex audio set up yet and I don’t know how you figured it out, so I’m glad it worked.

Craig Silva:

The internet. Thank you, YouTube.

Karen Farmer:

Bless the internet.

Craig Silva:

Just go Googling how to record podcasts in person,  it involved renting equipment. It’s all after that. It was relatively easy.

Karen Farmer:

10 out 10. You did great work.

Craig Silva:

We’ll see how it sounds.

Karen Farmer:

Had you ever been to Nashville before?

Craig Silva:

I had never been to Nashville. I had never been to Tennessee at all.

Karen Farmer:

Oh, okay. All right! And what’s your hot take? Yes. I went to college in Kentucky, which is very close to Nashville, so I have.

Craig Silva:

Oh yes, I remember this because you were very excited to talk to a cab driver about it.

Karen Farmer:

 <laugh>,

Craig Silva:

I’m remembering. It’s all coming back.

Karen Farmer:

Ah, yes, yes.

Craig Silva:

My hot take on Nashville is that I really enjoyed it. I’d never been, and I loved seeing new places and I had delicious food and good drinks and had fun. My favorite part was when we got to go to Ingram though.

Karen Farmer:

Me too! Tell the world about this magical facility.

Craig Silva:

So for people who don’t know what Ingram is and I guess why would you if you’re not in the book industry, but it is a gigantic warehouse where they create books literally, like there’s conveyor belts and books are just pouring off of them and it’s amazing. So we got to go and have a tour of the facility and it was very secretive. No, we couldn’t take pictures, we couldn’t take videos. Unfortunately the entire time I just wanted to film the entire experience. They had paper rolls as big as cars.

Karen Farmer:

The paper rolls were my favorite. The woman that gave us the tour told us; If you unrolled one of these paper rolls, it was seven miles long and I cannot stop thinking about that.

Craig Silva:

Yes. And so we just got to see. It was amazing. Every aspect of a book being made from printing the pages to folding to the covers and glue and it was amazing. I was like a little kid. It felt like a Willy Wonka moment.

Karen Farmer:

It really did. Yeah, the books were flying all around, literally just popping out of machines and glorious.

Craig Silva:

Yes, it was lovely. We won the Golden Ticket <laugh> so that was probably my favorite part, to be honest.

Karen Farmer:

I feel like I won the Golden Ticket when I walked into Parnassus books, which we will talk about a lot in this episode, but was that not one of the most adorable bookstores you’ve ever seen?

Craig Silva:

It was amazing. It was so cute and Anne was lovely and we got to meet her dogs and they have this little kid section where you can walk through a little tunnel to get into it, which I did. Of course, I have a video literally of me walking through it.

Karen Farmer:

Huge shout out to the booksellers at Parnassus because once we got done recording the podcast, we were all walking around creating our stacks of books that we were about to purchase, and one of the book sellers came up to me, saw what I was holding, walked me around the store and said, but you also need this one then if you’re gonna read this book. And very dangerous and very effective

Craig Silva:

Yeah, those were the best book sellers ever. I feel like they had just read every book and had the best opinions and were able to guide us. It was lovely. I bought more books than I’m gonna say out loud cause it’s embarrassing

Karen Farmer:

I couldn’t get my suitcase to zip to go home.

Craig Silva:

Oh God!

Karen Farmer:

It was bad

Craig Silva:

Yes but also amazing. Speaking of Parnassus books, do we wanna get into the interview and then after the interview we will talk more about books and Nashville?

Karen Farmer:

Absolutely! That sounds fantastic.

Craig Silva:

Welcome to the Libro Podcast.

Ann Patchett:

Thank you. Welcome to Parnassus books.

Craig Silva:

Yes. For the listeners, we are literally sitting in Ann’s bookstore in Nashville, Tennessee. Parnassus books is absolutely gorgeous. I’m finding it almost distracting. I’m looking at all the books. I can see Gunckel from where I’m sitting, which is one of my recent favorites in the past couple of years so thank you so much for having us

Ann Patchett:

Here. I’m so glad you’re here. You’re gonna have to show me that book too.

Craig Silva:

It is on the book club Favorites. Oh, okay. Is what I can see from here. Good. Yeah, we were talking about starting to come here to do this podcast and we’re like, It’ll be so nice with actual human beings. Normally we do this and I’m in my sad little office alone.

Karen Farmer:

So 2 dimensional, on zoom

Ann Patchett:

Oh wow. Okay.

Craig Silva:

Yeah. This is actually the first time Karen and I have met in person, funny enough.

Karen Farmer:

Yes. Yeah.

Ann Patchett:

Oh, that’s wild.

Karen Farmer:

Yeah, we’ve worked together for two years and

Ann Patchett:

Have you done these in other bookstores?

Karen Farmer:

We haven’t.

Craig Silva:

This is our first live podcast

Ann Patchett:

Oh my gosh! Oh, it’s always honored.

Craig Silva:

We always just do it on Zoom, so this is much more fun where I can see you and see your cute dog walking around and there’s more

Ann Patchett:

Read the body language.

Craig Silva:

Exactly. Yeah.

Karen Farmer:

We do have some questions from our book sellers, specifically about Sparky, so everyone will be very happy to hear that Sparky is present. Wondering around. And Anne, I wanted to tell you, it was amazing last week. So I have an older sister that lives in Cincinnati and she, out of nowhere, reached out to me and she sent me an Instagram video of this bookstore. This bookstore looks amazing. We should go on a sister date to Nashville and go to Parnassus. And I said, I have to tell you something. I’m going there next week. She’s a little miffed at me right now that I have gotten here before her, but we will be back to do that

Ann Patchett:

Cincinnati is not far away

Karen Farmer:

Exactly. <laugh>,

Ann Patchett:

You can very easily drive

Karen Farmer:

Quick drive

Craig Silva:

Time for a road trip. Yeah. Last night when we were putting the finishing touches on our script here, we were kind of making a shopping list of what books we wanted to buy once we got here. So the second this podcast is done, I am going to be filling a tote bag of books, hopefully.

Ann Patchett:

Excellent. Yeah. Excellent. That’s why we lure you in.

Craig Silva:

Yes. It was the long game. The only reason you agreed to do the podcast was

Ann Patchett:

That’s because I thought that there could be some sales in it. So you don’t just listen to books you read books

Craig Silva:

Yeah. Yeah. So we’ve talked about this a ton, but we are absolutely. I sometimes listen to an audiobook at the same time as reading the paper one

Ann Patchett:

You mean word for word?

Craig Silva:

Yeah like following along.

Ann Patchett:

Oh my God.

Craig Silva:

Especially with fantasy, I find a lot of fantasy narrators or just do that. They do the voices and accents and it’s so cinematic or whatever, and I’m like, I’ve told Karen this before, but I’ll be listening to it while I’m driving or walking or whatever. And then I get home and I open the paper book and I’m like, It’s not as good in my voice. So I’ll like throw my AirPods on and be being read to, but while also reading, It’s a Lifestyle land.

Ann Patchett:

That’s so interesting because I went through this period of trying to read all of Shakespeare, and I got all of the plays on DVD, and I would read it, but then I would watch it with a close caption for the hearing impaired. Oh my gosh. My comprehension just went through the roof. If I could see it being acted and also read it and listen to it, that’s what really put it into my brain.

Craig Silva:

I love subtitles. I don’t ever watch movies without subtitles, and sometimes I go to theaters. I’m like, I wish I could turn the subtitles off. They should make special glasses where if you put them on, you can see the subtitles.

Karen Farmer:

It will scroll across the bottom.

Ann Patchett:

Do you ever go to opera?

Craig Silva:

I’ve been to a Singular opera. It was a Burke & Hare opera, actually.

Ann Patchett:

Oh, Interesting.

Craig Silva:

It was amazing.

Ann Patchet:

They have the super titles, and in most operas they’re above the stage, but at the Met, they are on the back of the seat in front of you and you can punch through 12 different languages. And it’s great because you’re not flipping your head up and down. It stays in your sight line so you can read and watch.

Karen Farmer:

That’s brilliant.

Ann Patchett:

It is brilliant. It is.

Karen Farmer:

Okay. To the opera, after this, after we record.

Craig Silva:

We record, buy books, then the opera.

Karen Farmer:

Then the opera!

Ann Patchett:

And then of course, when you are reading the opera, what you realize is that they are singing the same three sentences over and over and over

Karen Farmer:

Oh, interesting.

Ann Patchett:

Yeah.

Karen Farmer:

Huh. Well I think this is probably a moot point because you are very well known in the book Lover Community, but for anyone who happens to be listening to this. Who may not know about your work, would you give a brief introduction to yourself?

Ann Patchett:

Okay. I am 58 years old. I was born in Los Angeles. I’ve lived in Nashville since I was six. I published my first book, The Patron Saints of Liars when I was 26 in 1992. I have written many, many, many books. And about 11 years ago, almost 11 years ago, we opened Parnassus books with Karen Hayes, who was my business partner. And then a few months ago, Karen was the in-store manager, and she said she wanted out. She wanted to retire. And so I bought her out and I now own this whole bookstore, which is hysterical because I never wanted to own a bookstore, and I never meant to own a bookstore. I just met this really interesting driven person who was like, I wanna open a bookstore, but I don’t have any money. And I was like, I don’t wanna open a bookstore, but I have money. I will pay for the bookstore and I’ll be the silent partner. This is what happens.

Karem Farmer:

Wow

Ann Patchett:

Yeah

Karen Farmer:

Well, congratulations.

Ann Patchett:

You know what? Actually, it’s been nothing but joy.

Karen farmer:

Awesome.

Ann Patchett:

It’s been such a great thing in my life. So it’s something I never in a million years would’ve done. I was not one of those writers who wishfully walked into bookstores on tour and thought, Oh, well, someday I really hope I get one of these for myself. It’s like I never looked at a Newfoundland thought, I wish I had one of those. Nope, nope. But now I do have a Newfoundland thought.

Craig Silva:

Oh, really?

Ann Patchett:

No, no. The bookstore is the Newfoundland. It’s a metaphor.

Ann Patchett:

That’s what writers do? We speak in metaphors.

Craig Silva:

I was so sparky to come to the bookstore, but the Newfoundland No. Oh, that’s amazing

Ann Patchett:

Actually our floor manager does in fact own a Newfoundland, so they are on my mind.

Craig Silva:

Amazing. I have a dog too. And he is, he’s smaller, not small as Sparky, but pretty small. But he looks like a big dog. He looks like an Irish wolf found. So whenever we go to the dog park, they’re like, Is he an Irish wolf found? I’m like, Absolutely not. He better not be.

Ann Patchett:

Wow.

Craig Silva:

I live in a small apartment.

Ann Patchett:

That must be a really good look.

Craig Silva:

Yeah. Yeah. He looks exactly like an Irish wolf found, but 40 pounds instead of like 200 or whatever.

Ann Patchett:

Wow! Then you know what you say. You say it is an Irish wolf found. We just left him in the dryer too long.

Karen Farmer:

Like a knitting project. I’m, It just got a little smaller, just

Ann Patchett:

We felt at him.

Karen Farmer:

We felt it. Yes. Yes. Well, one of the questions we had, actually, this is a perfect transition in terms of finding yourself, owning fully, owning a bookstore. One of the questions we love to ask a bookstore owner specifically are two things. What has surprised you about owning a bookstore? Things that you didn’t see coming about this life or what do you wish people knew about owning a bookstore? I think people, myself included, I have a lot of assumptions about what it’s like. I’m like, Oh, it’s just beautiful all the time. And you’re curetting staff picks lists and putting up these beautiful displays on the wall, but I’m sure there is a lot more than what meets the eye.

Ann Patchett:

So everything was a surprise to me because I went from having no interest and no intentions where bookstores are concerned to owning one so fast, <laugh> that I never had sat around and thought, Oh, I bet it’s gonna be like this. I did not gather expectations. Still, the thing that’s been surprising and so intensely pleasing is how much I love the people that work here and that it is like the bar at Cheers and the Coffee Shop on Friends. It is this place where we come and I often say, “This is the island of misfit toys”.

Karen Farmer:

I love it.

Ann Patchett:

Everybody here is way too smart to be here, but they also probably wouldn’t really be any place else that sort of built in friendship. I feel like I have created a place where I store my friends and I can come in at any moment and talk about books, and we argue about books and laugh about books and everything else too, but that’s like a fantasy.

Ann Patchett:

That’s just fantastic. The thing that people assume about bookstores is best summed up in a John Grisham novel. I know John Grisham, I adore him. He is such a good literary citizen. He is such a good guy. He doesn’t take himself seriously at all. But he wrote a book called Camino Island, I think that’s right. And it was his one time in the bookstore. He doesn’t go on book tours, he doesn’t do book tours very often, but he came here and John Meacham and I together were interviewing John g Grisham. So it was quite a scene and we were really cracking up. But it was a novel about a guy who owned a bookstore on an island and he wore lemon suits and he made espresso and he read all the books and he had sex with all the visiting authors. And I was like, Dude, I mean, do you think we have that kind of time? What are you talking about? And he was like, I just made this up. Ease up. It doesn’t mean anything. It’s imagination, but I think that’s what people think. They think that we’re well dressed, that we’ve read everything. My neighbors stop me all the time while I’m walking the dog at 6:30 in the morning and say, Oh, do you have volume seven of the Percy Jackson series? Like, what the hell do you think I am?

Craig Silva:

Like? And then you tell them there is no volume seven.

Ann Patchett:

Do you think I’m the inventory system? It’s just every day somebody says, Well, do you have such and such a book? How would I know?

Karen Famer:

Be like, Fantastic question. Come to the bookstore at 10:00 AM and I will look it up for you.

Ann Patchett:

Do people actually think that I have read every book, single book in the store and that I ordered it because I read it. Wow. You really give me an awful lot of credit.

Karen Farmer:

I do customer support at Libro fm and people think I have read every book as well. I get a lot of emails that say, I heard about this book that’s about a woman in her forties who’s a scientist, and it’s this and this and this. Do you know what day it might be? I’m like, Huh, It had a blue cover.

Ann Patchett:

I’ll try. And I heard about it on Morning Edition eight weeks ago.

Craig Silva:

In that book with the guy, the book one with the guy in it, it has the hair

Ann Patchett:

And you think it’s a joke. It’s like the oldest book seller’s joke, but it’s not a joke. It’s our life. This is exactly what goes on all day long and we love it.

Craig Silva:

How do you answer those questions? For me, I would be after the 10th time, which would be day three of owning the bookstore, I’d be like, Enough. Enough is enough.

Ann Patchett:

What is so amazing is I swear to you, like 95% of the time we figure it out.

Karen Famer:

Yep.

Ann Patchett:

It’s amazing. It’s just there are enough. That’s why keep asking the answers. There are enough people on the floor who read all these different things and we can pull people in and somebody can piece it together. Chelsea Chelsea’s like, Oh yeah, Sissy. Oh yeah, I can. I can figure, I mean, there’re just some people that you, We haul ’em out of the back.

Karen farmer:

You triangulate that with our powers combined.

Ann Patechett:

Right, Exactly.

Craig Silva:

I think when we so we interviewed Emma Strub

Ann Patchett:

My daughter, my sister Emma.

Craig Silva:

So another author, bookstore owner. She had mentioned to us that the bookstore is kind of a living, breathing thing in the way that she had a bookseller that was really into horror. And when that bookseller worked at the bookstore, they had an amazing horror section. And then when that book still went on they still have horror, but it’s not as curated. And as people come and go, the bookstore actually changes in some ways. Do you find that to be true for your bookstore?

Ann Patchett:

Yeah, absolutely. Especially with anything in Children’s. It seems like that’s the balance. There are some times in the history of this store that we just haven’t had somebody, Well, we’ve always had one person who is strong in Children’s, but never enough. But then we think, Okay, from here on out, we’re hiring people who know children and then suddenly everything is children’s and middle grade. And while we get way too strong. It’s like we overdevelop our children’s muscles, <laugh>, and then we think we’ve gotta shrink them down. Right now we really need more adult nonfiction readers. But it is just that never ending balance. But really it’s a balance that has to do mostly with Children’s.

Craig Silva:

So I read on your site that last year was your 10 year anniversary at the store

Ann Patchett:

Last November. Yes.

Karen Farmer:

Congratulations.

Ann Patchet:

Thank you very much.

Craig Silva:

What an amazing thing for the community in Nashville here. And we were speaking of the community on the About Us page, on the site, you talk about how the bookstore is so much about community, including the name actually. And I was just curious, could you give us one? I would love to hear more about the name.

Ann Patchett:

I’d love to tell you about the name.

Craig Silva:

Alright! Lay it on us. And my

Ann Patchett:

Next question. So we opened this store on November 15th, 2011. Karen Hayes and I met for the first time on April 30th, 2011. So that was our very small gap of, I met you, I wanna open a bookstore too, We’re opening a bookstore.

Karen Farmer:

It’s Real.

Ann Patchett:

Yeah. The day we had lunch and we were introduced by a mutual friend, she had a business proposal. And she said at the very end of that meeting, I wanna name the bookstore Parnassus, because she was obsessed with the Christopher Morley novella, Parnassus on Wheels. And her other big dream was to have a book mobile, which we had a book mobile. And at that moment when she said that, I was like, Okay, I don’t know what Parnassus means, I don’t know how to spell it. And it makes me feel dumb, right? So I just think it’s a terrible name for a bookstore. And she said, I’ve always wanted a bookstore named Parnassus. And it was one of those moments where I thought, Okay, this isn’t a compromised situation. This is either you get your way or I get my way. I wanted to name the book dependent People after my favorite novel, Independent People by Halldor Laxness. So basically we both wanted to name the store after our favorite book. And I finally thought, Well, you’re the one who’s gonna be working at the store, so you should get your way on this one.

Craig Silva:

Wait but now she’s gone and now you are here

Ann Patchett:

 Now she’s gone. So what do you do? Throw out all the T-shirts and have new ones made that say independent people,

Craig Silva:

Sign made. I mean, what a pain in the ass. Right?

Ann Patchett:

 Right. I’ve been branded. Literally. I have been branded and I can’t get rid of it. And the fact is, you grow into your name. My stepson, who is the coolest person I know, just brilliant and cool. His name is Cecil. So Cecil is a really hard name to grow up with if you are not the coolest, most popular, most wonderful person in school. And it turns out he was so then the fact that his name is Cecil Van Devinder is absolutely fine.

Craig Silva:

Yeah, I couldn’t pull that name off personally.

Ann Patchett:

I could not pull that name off when I was on the Colbert Report years ago, and I took Cecil with me cuz Cecil loves Colbert. And Colbert comes back and he’s meeting everybody and he sticks out his hand and Cecil goes, Cecil Devinder. He was like, Full name or what? Are you kidding me? Are you kidding me? That is the coolest name in the entire world, which it is because he’s the coolest guy.

Craig Silva:

That’s awesome.

Ann Patchett:

So that’s sort of the deal with Parnassus. Parnassus, if you don’t know, is the mountain in Greece where the gods of music and dance and poetry were born and because we’re the Athens of the South, blah, blah, blah, I still don’t like the name of the store.

Craig Silva:

Oh no.

Ann Patchett:

I really don’t. I still wanna wake up and have it be independent before <laugh>.

Craig Silva:

Have you ever considered renaming it or is it too late?

Ann Patchett:

It’s just too late. We’re branded. Everybody knows us. If we change the name to independent, independent people, everybody would think that I had sold the store and somebody else had bought it. I see.

Craig Silva:

Totally. Yeah.

Ann Patchett:

Yeah. It’s done. It’s done. <laugh>.

Craig Silva:

I love that community aspect of it where it’s too late. Everyone in the community knows the name and we’re a fixture here. And I think you mentioned earlier you wanted the bookstore to be almost people’s third place.

Ann Patchett:

Oh definitely. And it is

Craig Silva:

Can you tell us about an experience where people have a community experience that’s meant a lot to you in terms of Nashville, whether it was like, Oh my God, we had a book signing here and this happened. Or is there any kind of stories that you’ve learned that have happened to you here that have meant a lot?

Ann Patchett:

But I’m gonna take it down to the smallest level, which is I have a friend couple. I know both of them. I’m not super close to either of them, but I know them both. And one of them said to me that they were at home and one of them was like, I’ve gotta go pick up the kids. And the other one was like, Well, I’ve gotta go to work. And they both left the house and sort of half. And then five minutes later they both found each other here because what they were both saying is, I just need 10 minutes to myself.

Karen Farmer:

I need a moment.

Ann Patchett:

I just need to get outta the house and have a minute. And they both came here. And that is exactly what I want this place to be. This is the place that if you have 15 minutes in between your doctor’s appointment and picking your kids up from school, you can come here.

Ann Patchett:

And if your whole family goes out to dinner and you still have another hour to kill or you have an hour before dinner, you can come here. It’s like a place to be and great. You buy something. I love that. But you don’t have to buy anything. You can just be here. And I like to say, you can’t take your whole family to anthropology after dinner. And there’s something for everybody and everybody can go to their own little spot. My husband’s a doctor and last year we had the doctor Christmas party here, and it was the best Christmas party anybody had ever been to because the extroverts could stand next to the food and talk. But the introverts just all went to the corners. They just all found a little spot and a book and they sat down and they had the best time.

Craig Silva:

Amazing!

Ann Patchett:

So you can really be yourself. Now, that said, I can tell you endless, fabulous stories. John Prine came when his book was out and he talked about his career and he sang and it was so beautiful. A father, Greg Boyle, who I just adore from Homeboy Industries in Los Angeles, the world’s largest gang prevention and rehabilitation program, came here with two of the homeboys and they told their stories and it was spiritual. I mean, we walked out of this bookstore better people and we’ve had Anthony from Queer Eye and we’ve had the head of the coach of the Lady Vols. So where you get an entirely different group of people, There are events where you have zero overlap and events where you have the store crammed to the rafters with people who have never been in this bookstore and dare I say, maybe haven’t been in a bookstore in 20 years. But they’re here and they’re like, God, this is beautiful, This is wonderful. And those are just endlessly incredible moments.

Craig Silva:

Okay, so what was it, coffee then opera, and then we’re opening a bookstore.

Karen Farmer:

Yes. Right? Yes. That’s an example. This is, that’s today. That’s our agenda for today. Now. Right.

Craig Silva:

It’s amazing. Thank you so much for sharing that. Typically Karen and I write all of the questions that we plan to ask, but given that we’re in a bookstore and you run a bookstore, we actually opened up some questions to our other seller partners that are on Libro. So we got a couple of questions that we wanted to ask you. First off, mostly people were just wanted to say that they love you and thank you so much

Karen Farmer:

You do for your bookstores.

Ann Patchett:

I love you too.

Karen Farmer:

Question. Oh, tell Ann we love her.

Craig Silva:

The second question that we got, or really the first one was, how is Sparky doing? People want a Sparky update. <laugh>

Ann Patchett:

Sparky is great. Sparky is really terrific. Sparky is on the lay down diaries every Tuesday, which is our little Instagram program that we started during Covid when the store was closed. And I kept thinking, we don’t have any way to tell people about the new books. People know how to get the old books that they love, but what’s coming out on Tuesday? And it became really popular. And so we’re still doing it every single Tuesday. So people really follow Sparky because he is there every Tuesday. And if, I don’t know if this is what you’re talking about, but Sparky ruptured a disc in his back in January.

Karen Farmer:

Oh no!

Ann Patchett:

And he had big spinal surgery and he did great. And so that was January. This is October and he’s just now going up and down the stairs. So Sparky’s doing really well. We also have a lot of other shop dogs. We have five other dogs on staff.

Karen Farmer:

Oh wow.

Ann Patchett:

And some days they’re all here, and some days there’s only one dog here. A lot of times they’re all in the back cuz they’re lazy bums. And the person who receives our books is a guy named Peter King. And the dogs are so obsessed with Peter that they just stand back in the receiving room all day and stare at him. Really crazy.

Craig Silva:

So that is a perfect segue into our next question, which is from I apologize if I put your name. It’s either Andrea or Andrea from bookstore one in Sarasota, Florida. And speaking of your Tuesday lay down diaries, she wants to know more about it. And do you guys rehearse for them before you record them?

Ann Patchett:

We don’t rehearse. We do one take.

Karen Farmer:

Organic.

Ann Patchett:

 We get in the morning and man, I read galleys, that’s all I do. All I do is read books that aren’t coming out for four months. And there are Tuesday mornings that I walk into the store and I look in the carts and I’m like, I have not read one single book. There is not a single book here that I have read, especially in the summer. It’s torture. And so then you’re reading flap copies or you’re basing it on the cover or you’re trying to just put together some little theme. And then September rolls around and I’m like, It’s Tuesday. I’ve read five of these books. I can really be intelligent on this.

Craig Silva:

Why in the summer? Is it different? You’re just too busy hanging out at the beach and or

Ann Patchett:

Like, Oh no, no. Summer books you read in February

Ann Patchett:

It’s that summer books aren’t my thing. I respect them. I’m glad they’re here. But it’s just like, it’s a lot of mystery. It’s a lot of romance. There’s a lot of stuff I don’t read. It’s beach read. Beach read, not a beach read. I personally am not a beach read gal. So you don’t get literary fiction and non-fiction. That’s my wheelhouse, as we said at the beginning, everybody’s got their wheelhouse. So it’s mortifying to have to show up and do your little program on Tuesday morning when you haven’t read the books. <laugh>. And I wouldn’t have known to read the books, to read those books. I would’ve had to have read them in February.

Karen Farmer:

I see.  Interesting! Okay. I’m learning a lot about the <laugh>, the relief cycles for summer reads.

Ann Patchett:

And the whole thing that so many people don’t know is that all books are published on Tuesdays, which is just something that fascinates people. I always say it’s like horses leaving the gate for a race. They all have to leave at the exact same time and the months. And I think about this as an author all the time, the months where there are no books, December cookbooks, self help.

Karen Farmer:

Oh,

Ann Patchett:

January…

Craig Silva:

Is it just because of gift books? Yeah, people are always buying.

Ann Patchett:

Nobody is gonna publish a serious novel in the middle of December, July. So dead the last week of July,

Karen Farmer:

<laugh>,

Ann Patchett:

I’ve got a book coming out next summer and I’m really thinking, I’m gonna publish on the last week of July, do it

Craig Silva:

Not even on a Tuesday, do it on a Wednesday

Karen Farmer:

<laugh>

Ann Patchett:

That they won’t let me do. But then that’s Home studying. No one is there. And anybody who’s receiving books on the last week of July, any bookstore in this country is gonna be like, God bless you and Patrick for bringing us something to do today.

Karen Farmer:

I can’t wait for that day when that book is released. And I’ll be like, She did it. She did it.

Ann Patchett:

Yeah, absolutely.

Karen Farmer:

One of the other things that came up in the feedback or the questions that the bookseller submitted to us for you, it’s kind of a non-question question.

Ann Patchett:

I’m good at those

Karen Farmer:

But folks were just very appreciative of how you have advocated for independent bookstores and for book sellers with your platform as an author and as an owner of this beautiful store. So can you talk a little bit about how that journey has been becoming this huge advocate that people know you for the book world?

Ann Patchett:

I didn’t know it was a job and I have no memory of applying for it. And yet it is my job and it’s a really good job. And I like to say I am two independent bookstores as Julia Roberts is to lancome mascara. I don’t formulate it, I don’t package it. I don’t brand it. I just wear it. And I don’t know how to work the cash register in the store. I don’t know how to order books. The list of things I can’t do is comically long. But for whatever reason, if some random book seller stands up and says, Don’t order your books on Amazon, order them from your independent bookstore, go and shop local. It sounds like a scold a lot of times. And people will get their hackles up for whatever reason. If Ann Patchett says it, it’s fine. And so I do, and I will say, if you order this book on Amazon, I will come to your house.I will hunt you down. It is fine with me to buy books on Amazon. I care that you read. That’s the most important thing. A lot of people don’t live near independent bookstores. A lot of people don’t care about independent bookstores. Fine, get your books on Amazon, but you cannot come into my store and shop and talk to my smart employees and soak up my ambiance and come to my author events and then go home and order your book on Amazon, because then I will follow you to your house. And if I say that, people are like, ha ha ha. And they’re scared too. They’re like, Whoa. Ann Patchett’s coming after me.

Karen Farmer:

Message received.

Ann Patchett:

Message received. So that I think is what I do. It’s that somehow I can say the things that people are thinking, but coming from me as in the beloved author status, people are willing to accept it and hear it.

Ann Patchett:

And a lot of people just don’t know. I always say people aren’t bad, but they’re stupid. And if you tell them what to do, they’re like, Oh, I get that. Oh, I wanna have a tax base in my community. I wanna create jobs in my community. I wanna have a place to go when I’m mad at my husband and need to get out of the house.

Karen Farmer:

Doesn’t need 10 minutes.

Ann Patchett:

I wanna have a place to go when my kid comes home and says, I need a copy of Animal Farm cuz I’ve gotta read it by tomorrow. Like, Oh, okay, that then if you don’t support your independent bookstore, gardening shop, coffee shop, yarn shop, whatever it is, then they’re gonna go away. And when your kid comes home and wants that book that second, you’re not gonna have that place to go. And I think that Libro is such a perfect example of this because people don’t know that Audible is owned by Amazon. People don’t know that they are giving Jeff Bezos more money to go to the moon by downloading their book from Audible. So it’s my job to say, Oh, okay, you don’t know this but in fact, if you get the exact same audio book from Libro, you are contributing to your community. You’re contributing to independent bookstores and you’re not sending Jeff Bezos to the moon. Yep. Yep. Right. He’s got enough. Yeah. God bless him. He’s got enough.

Karen Farmer:

He’s gonna be ok. Enough is enough

Ann Patchett:

Right. It’s like being in a bar. Jeff, you’ve got enough. We’re cutting you off.

Ann Patchett:

It’s time to go home, Jeff.

Ann Patchett:

That’s right.

Craig Silva:

You can’t stay here.

Karen Farmer:

So I want to make sure we could talk to you all day. We may overstay our welcome, but we wanna make sure that we talk about your latest book, These Precious Days. And I know that you’ve talked about this in other forms, but I have to ask this question. Something that resonated with me so much at the beginning of this book was your journey through the Pandemic as a writer and you write many different genres, but essays in this time were something that felt very accessible to you. They felt like the thing that the space that your mind wanted to go to during these times. Can you speak a little bit about why that was and what the journey of creating this book was? Given that you have so many genres that you are capable in and that are available to you,

Ann Patchett:

We didn’t know what the future was going to hold. And of course that’s the great joke because we never know what the future is going to hold. We may all be hit by a bus this afternoon. But the pandemic really brought that home. It didn’t feel like the moment to start something long format because you think, am I gonna die? Are the people that I love gonna die? And I was also sharing my house with someone who was dying of recurrent pancreatic cancer. My friend Zuki Raphael, who was living with us and everything felt very immediate. I didn’t wanna plan something that was way out in the future. It was gonna take me a huge amount of time. I wasn’t even thinking in terms of writing a book of essays. I just thought, okay, today I can write about this today. I can tell this particular story of life and what we’re doing right now and what’s going on. So it felt manageable and controlled and personal and it was the right form for the moment.

Karen Farmer:

Thank you. So that is so wonderful to hear. I write poetry and I feel very, very similar. And that’s like their moment by moment kind of like this is a brief thing that I can encapsulate because that’s what I have right now to give. And I had never thought about essays in that way. And that’s really beautiful.

Ann Patchett:

Well, if I could write poetry, I would have been doing that because I think that’s exactly right. But it is about just being in the now which is what we’re all always hoping to achieve. But I thought that Covid was very helpful for making sure that you were living your life right in that moment. Yep. He was going to ask me about audiobooks. Because I really do have some things to say.

Craig Silva:

Let’s Move there.

Karen Farmer:

Yes. Yeah, that was actually perfect timing.

Ann Patchett:

Then next, I don’t wanna control your interview, but…

Karen Farmer:

No, that’s beautiful. The next question on the list was, and we didn’t flash it out since

Craig Silva:

It just says narration, question

Karen Farmer:

Narration and audio books,

Ann Patchett:

Audiobook.

Craig Silva:

Yes. I actually did have a question about audiobooks. So I saw that some of your books, mostly your novels, are narrated by someone else. But a lot of your non-fiction, like These Precious Days, is narrated by you. And I’m just curious about that decision.

Ann Patchett:

Okay, well, it is actually a clear binary thing. All of my novels are narrated by someone else. And all of the non-fiction is narrated by me. I keep wanting to say nominated.

Craig Silva:

I don’t know where that’s nominated by you.

Ann Patchett:

I nominated, I nominate this book and I love recording audio books. That is my skill set. Being in an audiologist’s box for eight hours a day is my dream with someone on the other side of the glass going, Oh, you made a mistake, do that again. I am so good. And directors tell me all the time, they work with people who can stay in the box for 20 minutes tops, and then they have to leave and go take a walk around the block. Not me, man. I can stay in there until my stomach is growling so much that they’re like, We can’t do this anymore.

Craig Silva:

The mic is picking up. You need to go to lunch.

Ann Patchett:

I can break the will of any director or producer on the other side of the glass

Craig Silva:

If it seems like you just said, That’s my dream, I wanna do that. Why don’t you do the fiction? Because I, I listened to these precious days and I thought you narrated it beautifully. And I like you, in my mind, you could totally do the fiction. So where does that

Ann Patchett:

Ok in my mind I could totally do the fiction too, but there is also someone who could do it better. And that’s the line. Sure, if I could do a really good job, but if somebody else can do a great job, I need to step back. The book that I just finished that’s coming out in the third week of July.

Craig Silva:

In the third week of July on Thursday

Ann Patchett:

Is has a first person female narrator who has a voice that would be completely in my wheelhouse. And I had a moment of thinking, I could do this, I could do this. And then I just think, but if I could get Julianne Moore to do it, she’d do it better. And…

Craig Silva:

Is that, who’s there?

Ann Patchett:

Oh no, no.

Karen Farmer:

<laugh>.

Ann Patchett:

No, no, no. Although I know her, so there’s part of me. I think I’m gonna just send her a note saying, I’m gonna put a flea in your ear.

Craig Silva:

Yeah. I I wouldn’t be surprised you’ve had other pretty well known actors. Read your books before

Ann Patchett:

Yeah! Tom Hanks read the Dutch House, which just was one of the great audiobooks of all times. I mean, it was incredible. He did such a brilliant job.

Craig Silva:

This is actually a question from one of our colleagues at Libro, and I didn’t know if we’d get to it, because the person was like, it’s kind of a shallow question, but I want to know. So if it comes up, ask, Yeah, did you get to meet Tom Hanks? And what was that? Did you get to work together on that?

Ann Patchett:

I know Tom we’re friends and that’s why

Craig Silva:

I got that, no big deal.

Ann Patchett:

That’s why I asked him. People are so funny. They’re like, How did Harper Collins pick Tom Hanks? How did they make that decision? And I’m like, Are you out of your mind?

Karen Farmer:

You’re like, I sent a text message to my friend and he agreed to do it.

Ann Patchett:

Yeah. I was like, hey!

Craig Silva:

Hey Tom, are you around?

Ann Patchett:

Yeah, that’s exactly what it was. And I thought, I was just like I said to him, No pitches, no hits. I don’t in a million years think you’re gonna do this, but I’m asking you. Right. I mean, that’s amazing. There’s no harm in asking. And he was like, Well that sounds like fun. Send me how I’ll see if I like it. And I was like… Oh my God, <laugh>.

Craig Silva:

Can you imagine if he was like, Nah, didn’t like it. Not for me.

Ann Patchett:

I can, because he wouldn’t have said that. But he would’ve said, I’m not the right voice for this character. And that would’ve made perfect sense. And I’ll tell you what, this is the crazy part. He was my third choice.

Karen Farmer:

Really? Who are you? Are you able to tell us who the first was?

Ann Patchett:

So the first person I asked was, John Lipko

Karen Farmer:

Amazing.

Ann Patchett:

And he was like, Oh my God, I’m trying, I just can’t work it into my schedule. I’m so sorry. I asked Alan Alda, same thing. Oh, I would love to do this. I can’t. And then I was like, Okay, I know three actors, I’ll ask Tom. And he was like, He wrote me back in two seconds. And he was like, Oh, that sounds like so much fun. Send me the book. That’s amazing. And it was funny because then Alan emailed me and said, Okay, you got Tom to record your book. Can you get him to do my podcast? And I was like, Sure, Tom, can you do Alan all this podcast? And Tom did. And Alan fall was like, I just want you to know, she asked me first

Karen Farmer:

Yes. And that was my next question. I’m like, do they know? The order in which they were, they’re

Craig Silva:

About to cut that part out, if not.

Ann Patchett:

They sort of all took bragging rights. And I have actually seen an interview with John Lipko who was like, She asked me first. I did. I really did

Craig Silva:

Tom’s texting you. I was third. I did the Polar Express for Christ’s sake.

Ann Patchett:

Actually, what Tom said to me was, Have you lost George Clooney’s email <laugh>?

Karen Farmer:

So that is related to a question that our coworker had, is Tom Hanks as wonderful as he seems, and that clarifies that, Yes, he is.

Ann Patchett:

Tom Hanks is so fantastic. And we met because I interviewed him when his book came out

Karen Farmer:

Oh cool.

Ann Patchet:

In DC. And he said to me afterwards that he was really interested in owning a bookstore. And so he comes to Nashville, his wife Rita Wilson is a singer, songwriter and actor, producer, director. I mean Rita’s everything. So they come to Nashville pretty often and he started to come into the bookstore to talk about how he might open a bookstore, which didn’t wind up happening.

Craig Silva:

We call it Independent People.

Ann Patchett:

No, he signs his name Hanks with an X, H A N X. So he wanted to call it Hanx books. And it was a great idea that I think went by brcause he has 7 million things going on. So that’s how we got to know each other. He’s also a tremendous reader. So anytime I send him a book or say, Oh, I just read something you would really like, two minutes later he’s got a read.

Craig Silva:

Speaking of having 7 million things, this isn’t in our script, it’s just come to my mind. But being an author seems like it’s a very much full-time job with touring and interviews and podcasts and marketing and all the things. And also running a bookstore, is it a full time job?

Ann Patchett:

No, no no, I don’t run a bookstore. I own a bookstore.

Craig Silva:

Oh, okay. Okay. Okay.

Ann Patchett:

Andy and Ka run the bookstore. Karen used to run the bookstore, but I don’t mean, again, going back to the mascara analogy, I just wear it. I just flaunt it. I just <laugh> represent it. And…

Craig Silva:

It’s just a place for your Christmas parties.

Ann Patchett:

That’s exactly right. You know What? I feel fine about that. I do a lot, do a ton of publicity. I bring amazing authors in. Not that I schedule events, I surely do not do that. But I can call Colson Whitehead and be like, Hey, you owe me just a tiny bit. Can you come do this?

Craig Silva:

Emma said the same thing actually, that she’s like, I don’t abuse it, but I have connections in the book world and it was very beneficial to my bookstore. And she’s like, I don’t abuse that power, but I’m not gonna say it doesn’t exist either.

Ann Patchett:

That’s right. And when people say to me, I live in plain view Indiana, and I really wanna open a bookstore. And I think that’s really hard cuz the two things I have going for me is Ann Patchett, The Anne Patchettness in which I can get people to come and do events. And that’s where you make a bunch of money. And the other thing that we have is a great airport. And that is so much

Craig Silva:

You have a Parnassus in the airport, right?

Ann Patchett:

We do.

Craig Silva:

It’s closed right now due to construction or something

Ann Patchett:

It’ll be open again after Christmas. But you’ve got to be someplace where there are direct flights, unless your square books or Lemuria books in Mississippi because they break all the rules and they get people to come. McClain and Econ in Petoskey, Michigan. I mean there are a few stores, but it’s really hard to get on people’s travel schedules if you don’t have a great airport where you have direct flights

Karen Farmer:

That makes so much sense

Ann Patchett:

And nobody thinks about that. And I still haven’t told you what audio books I love

Karen Farmer:

Please do

Craig Silva:

Yeah. We’re getting for the listeners that we’re literally in the bookstore and it’s gonna open soon. So before there’s a bunch of people milling about

Ann Patchett:

We’re racing the clock

Craig Silva:

Yes. Tell us about what you are listening to right now?

Ann Patchett:

Well, I’m so glad you asked. Thank you for that insightful question.

Craig Silva:

No problem. I am an excellent…

Ann Patchett:

Really, you’re both knocking it out. So write this minute. As in what I was listening to this morning as I was brushing my teeth and driving over is Elizabeth McCrackens reading the Hero of this book and this, I’m gonna tie this back to another part of the story. I didn’t realize when I downloaded it that Elizabeth was narrating it. Elizabeth is one of my best friends. I read the book early on in manuscript. She will be here Monday. Oh, I will be interviewing her. So I was planning on reading the book again and I thought, no, I’m gonna listen to it so I can talk about it during my libro interview. And it’s great. And one of the things that’s so wonderful is how much I’m laughing reading it, and how funny it is when I read it as a pile of paper a long time ago.

Ann Patchett:

It’s a book about Elizabeth’s mom dying. It’s a novel about Elizabeth’s mom dying. But I have been friends with Elizabeth since I was 25, and I knew Elizabeth’s mom really well. And so I’m reading it in a very serious way, but when I’m listening to it, I can know where her jokes are and I know what she means to be funny. And she’s not giving us something that’s a heavy book. It’s a deep book, but it’s also a really joyful book and a funny book. And there is this huge pleasure in listening to something that I’ve read, which I recently discovered because I own a bookstore and I have so many books that I have to read at every single moment. The UPS guy comes to my house five times a day. Everyone in the world knows where to find me. Now that I own this bookstore. I mean, I am covered up and I never get to read things twice. However, I had read Kevin Wilson’s new book. Now is Not the Time to Panic. Kevin is also a good friend. I read the book a long time ago. I absolutely loved it. And I was going to Memphis a few weeks ago and I downloaded it. It was one of the advanced,

Craig Silva:

Advanced listing copies

Ann Patchett:

Advanced listening copies. Thank you very much. Libro Folk. We all listen to those and appreciate them so much. Downloaded it. And I was listening to it and I thought, and he wasn’t reading it. Jennifer Goodwin read it and she did a brilliant job. But I thought, this is such a gift to have read a book. So I’m not reading it for plot, I’m not reading it to find out what’s gonna happen. I’m reading it to just admire the structure and the work and the thought that’s gone into creating it. I got so much out of it. And that is so often my experience with audio books. Like audio books take up two places in my mind. One, I like to listen, especially to nonfiction that I never would’ve read otherwise. For example, I recently listened to Wash Shoes Stay True.

Karen Farmer:

Okay.

Ann Patchett:

Random because I read him in the New Yorker and I know his name. And so I downloaded his audiobook and he read it and did a great job. I listen to things that are just entertaining. If I have to sign 21,000 tip sheets and I’m not joking, that is how many tip sheets I had to sign for the Dutch House.

Craig Silva:

My Lord

Ann Patchett:

I listened to things again that I just never would’ve read. Oh, I listened to Isaac Mizrahi’s, I am, right? That’s a perfect example of what I wanna listen to when I’m signing…

Karen Farmer:

Signing 21,000 times

Ann Patchett:

But then there’s also the part of me that will listen to the lighthouse or listen to Jeremy Irons, read Lolita, which is a book I used to teach. I understood that book a hundred times more when I listened to it. So the audio books can fit into so many places. And my biggest revelation, which probably came about 10 years ago, I always thought that audio books were for long road trips. That’s the biggest myth you guys have to bust. It’s for cleaning the house and brushing your teeth and lying in bed. And when you’re on the plane and your eyeballs are too dry to read for another second. And even if you’re just going around town running an errand, if you’ve always got an audio book, you finish it so fast that

Craig Silva:

Always have an audiobook in my ears. Basically, no matter what I’m doing. We always talk about how we’re in our house and my wife and my kid, we all have AirPods on listening to different books as we’re going about the house and we’re always taking one out. Did you say something and then putting it back in?

Ann Patchett:

Okay, here’s a question for the two of you. Do you ever speed ’em? Do you speed them up?

Craig Silva:

I do

Karen Farmer:

A little, a little bit

Ann Patchett:

Cause I don’t

Craig Silva:

Oh, you always you’re, you’re one point

Karen Farmer:

One point O

Ann Patchett:

I am. Which I think just makes me a novice, but everyone I know who’s deep into audio, they speed up and I can’t speed up.

Craig Silva:

Actually I’m dying to have another narrator. So we’ve spoken with some narrators on the podcast. We spoke with Julia Whelan and I regret not asking her how she feels about that. A lot of narrators are, they’re actors. It’s like their craft. It’s like their art to them. And I’m like

Karen Farmer:

It’s very thoughtful.

Craig Silva:

Do you feel if someone is like, you spent all this time to make this beautiful thing and then someone’s like, eh, 1.5.

Karen Farmer:

Or 2.4.

Ann Patchett:

It’s speed, but it’s speed reading. It’s the same thing if you write the book.

Craig Silva:

Yeah,

Ann Patchett:

Okay. So here’s my suggestion for somebody who would be great. Miley Malloy, who is one of my favorite authors, a dear friend and the biggest consumer of audiobooks I have ever met in my life because she lives in Los Angeles and she’s driving, always driving in the car and is always asking me for audiobook recommendations. I think you guys should just give her a book seller account because her superpowers are digesting audio books. It’s incredible.

Karen Farmer:

That’s beautiful.

Ann Patchett:

Yeah.

Karen Farmer:

I love that. So Craig does the reading while listening simultaneously. And I do the reading on the page until the last minute now and Okay, I have to get in the shower now. Then I put it on the audio book where I left off and then I switched back and forth and I’m like, I’ve just gotten through this book twice as fast. I do that. I’m never not reading. I

Ann Patchett:

Did that with Isabelle Wilkerson’s cast, and it was a really long book. So if I was moving, it was moving with me. But if I was home, I was reading it. And somehow mixing those two ways of taking in the book helped me get through the book. It’s a brilliant book, but it’s a tough book. And so it’s almost like I was bringing it in two different ways. It was really good.

Karen Farmer:

I totally, I feel that. And when I talk about audiobooks, I find myself doing this gesture a lot. For some reason it’s very of the body to me. It’s very visceral when I’m listening to it.

Ann Patchett:

And for listeners, she is just moving her hands down her neck in front of her chapter, the feeling of it.

Karen Farmer:

The Universal sign for Visceral, whatever that may be.

Ann Patchett:

Have either of you ever listened to Jonathan Strange and Mr. Norel?

Karen Farmer:

I have not listened to that.

Ann Patchett:

So fantastic.

Craig Silva:

It’s really, really good. As an audio book,

Ann Patchett:

One of my favorite books to read, and I decided I wanted to read it again and I listened to it. Oh my God. So great!

Craig Silva:

I really love audio for that type of genre, to be honest, out of any genre. I feel like that’s the perfect one for audio. It’s just perfect. Yeah.

Karen Farmer:

Well, so we mentioned this too transparently and knew about this. Before we started recording, we mentioned to you that last night we decided we were going to try a new podcast segment on you. This is our Libro lightning round. Is that what we’re calling this, Craig?

Craig Silva:

Yeah, let’s go with that. Yeah, The Libro Lightning round

Ann Patchett:

Work in progress.

Karen Farmer:

Yeah. We’ll workshop it later. But as Craig mentioned, a lot of us on this trip have met each other for the first time in person at Libro fm. And so we’ve been asking each other a lot of, what’s your favorite, this type of thing, questions as a fun way to learn about each other. So we would like to ask you.

Ann Patchett:

Bring it on

Karen Farmer:

Some random questions. And I think Craig has the first one.

Craig Silva:

Yeah. So our first one is, what was your first job?

Ann Patchett:

Cleaning houses? Probably when I was 13, I started cleaning, I mean, not like I had a business, but there were a couple of people whose houses I cleaned. And then when I was 15, I got a job in a shop that sold a lot of brass and silver and I would go and polish the brass and silver. I am a cleaner.

Craig Silva:

Oh yeah, me too.

Craig Silva:

Yeah. Also another perfect audiobook activity. Absolutely very much.

Karen Farmer:

Ann what is your favorite candy

Ann Patchett:

Licorice.

Karen Farmer:

Same!

Ann Patchett:

Yeah. And I go both ways.

Karen Farmer:

Okay.

Craig Silva:

Oh, you like black Licorice

Ann Patchett:

Well, black is licorice. Black licorice is licorice

Karen Farmer:

That is the definition.

Ann Patchett:

Yes but unlike some black licorice lovers, I like red licorice. And I also, I like a good and plenty. If it’s fresh, I, Okay. I always say my first novel, the Patron Saint of Liars was written entirely on Winston’s and Good and Plenty. And I gave up the cigarettes, but I never gave up

Karen Farmer:

Not the licorice

Ann Patchett:

Never the licorice

Karen Farmer:

Follow up question.

Ann Patchett:

Good, good. Go deeper

Karen Farmer:

Twizzler or red vine?

Ann Patchett:

Twizzler

Karen Farmer:

Same. All right.

Craig Silva:

I have never heard of red vine until this trip.

Karen Farmer:

You did have

Craig Silva:

I looked it up on Google and that didn’t help. I wasn’t, I was like, Oh, those, I literally have never heard that. You’ve

Karen Farmer:

You’ve never even?

Craig Silva:

Nope.

Ann Patchett:

Okay, interesting. This is very brief, but you’ve gotta know this for your own safety. A friend of mine goes to Iceland regularly. The wonderful novelist Patrick Ryan and I asked him to bring me some licorice back from Iceland, cuz it is the capital of licorice. And I ate two bags of licorice, not huge, just like normal, normal size bags. But I ate two of them. 

Craig Silva:

In a single sitting?

Ann Patchett:

No over three days. And I got these hard red hot marbles in every joint of my fingers.

Craig Silva:

Oh my God.

Ann Patchet:

And I couldn’t bend my hands. And my husband’s a doctor and I was like, What is going on? And this seems really serious. And he said, it’s the licorice. And I said, Oh you don’t get it, it’s not the licorice. Just because you don’t like licorice doesn’t mean that you can blame everything on licorice. And I went to the doctor with my stiff swollen hands and she said, It’s the licorice.

Craig Silva and Karen Farmer:

Really?

Ann Patchett:

Because licorice in other countries is not licorice here. And in Iceland there is actually a surgeon general’s warning on licorice just like cigarettes that eating too much of it can kill you.

Craig Silva:

Oh my God.

Ann Patchett:

But it’s so delicious. It’s so good

Karen Farmer:

We’re like, I’m gonna roll the dice on this. And I

Ann Patchett:

And I got some more and I brought it into the bookstore.

Craig Silva:

Wait, wait you had some more after that

Ann Patchett:

No, no. I had some more bags.

Craig Silva:

Oh, okay.

Ann Patchett:

So I brought it in and I was like, Okay, we can each have one piece. We can be like licorice communion.

Craig Silva:

Yes.

Ann Patchett:

 We can’t binge on licorice, but we can eat it responsibly.

Craig Silva:

Amazing.

Karen Farmer:

Thank you so much for this information. You may have saved my life.

Ann Patchett:

It’s a PSA

Karen Farmer:

<laugh>.

Craig Silva:

Oh my god. Donuts or bagels

Ann Patchett:

Donuts.

Craig Silva:

Okay. What’s your favorite donut place in Nashville?

Ann Patchett:

Oh my god. It’s just right here. And this is where you’ll go when you finish.

Craig Silva:

Its coworkers are there right now.

Ann Patchett:

Here, it’s the donut den. It’s how we tell everyone where we are. We’re behind the donut. It’s where I used to go in high school after play practice because it was so glamorous cuz it was open late. They have a brilliant apple fritter, a brilliant old fashioned, I am a team cake donut. And they also have a cronut, which is the deep fried croissant cut into the shape of a donut. It will change your life.

Craig Silva:

Does it also have a surgeon general warning on it?

Karen Farmer:

Right?

Ann Patchett:

Whenever Tom Hanks came to visit us at the store, he would go over and buy a cronut at the donut den. So they love us very much and they bring us free donuts all the time, which is a bit of a problem.

Karen Farmer:

If there were no logistics to deal with in this following scenario, just no complications. Yes. If you could move to any city other than Nashville tomorrow, where would you live?

Ann Patchett:

Gosh I’m gonna tell you the two cities that I was happiest living in Missoula, Montana, and Provincetown, Massachusetts. Provincetown.

Craig Silva:

Oh my. I’m from Massachusetts and I love P Town.

Ann Patchett:

And back in really the eighties before it was clean and rich, unbelievable. So many places. We went to Paris in May, my husband and I were like, Paris, we could live here.

Craig Silva:

I thought for sure that’s what you were gonna say. I absolutely adored the essay about you traveling in Paris with your friend when you were like 20 years old or whatever it was. It was the scene. The scene is like it’s a movie. The part where you’re talking about them having tattoos and they were so glamorous and they must be an artist in a poet or whatever.

Ann Patchett:

That’s right. Coz we had never seen a tattoo on a woman. Never once. This was like 1983. It was so radical. And it turns out it was a rub on

Craig Silva:

In the essay you said you were gonna, you were considering getting a tattoo. You basically had no money.

Karen Farmer:

A small cow.

Ann Patchett:

I was gonna get a little cow, yeah

Craig Silva:

Did you ever get it?

Ann Patchett:

No, I never got my ears pierced either.

Craig Silva:

Oh really?

Ann Patchett:

Yeah. No, I’m really, really glad to have sat that whole thing out.

Craig Silva:

I have some regrettable tattoos, so I don’t blame you.

Karen Farmer:

We were discussing this yesterday.

Craig Silva:

So speaking of Nashville, and this is actually my first time in Nashville. I think it’s as well, what is the best kept secret? Everyone says, go downtown and go to the bar. It’s like, what’s like, what is your

Ann Patchett:

The picnic whenever anybody says I wanna go someplace that a tourist would never go, the picnic. They have chicken salad, tuna salad, egg salad. It’s just where everybody goes to have a sandwich and it’s delicious. And it’s in the parking lot where Publix is. So just look up the picnic cafe and go have a tuna sandwich and you will not see a tourist. And everybody will believe that you live here. However,

Ann Patchett:

If they say, Is this your first time here? Then you will know that you have failed.

Craig Silva:

Oh no.

Ann Patchett:

And if you say yes, they will give you the most delicious cookie you’ve ever had.

Karen Farmer:

Oh,

Craig Silva:

This is a good secret

Karen Farmer:

So a double edged sword, right?

Ann Patchett:

But I know you come outta town, but they feel sorry for you. And they’re gonna give you a cookie.

Craig Silva:

 I’m willing to give myself away as a tourist for a free cookie.

Karen Farmer:

Yeah. Likewise. I will sell myself out for food. Yes.

Craig Silva:

Not Icelandic licorice, but for Nashville

Ann Patchett:

Tell them Patchett sent you. Tell him Reese Witherspoon sent you. The picnic is all about Reese. Yeah.

Karen Farmer:

Oh, okay. Yeah.

Craig Silva:

Love it

Karen Farmer:

One final question. One lightning ground question. I feel like this is very topical right now as we are entering autumn and the spooky season. What is your favorite season and why?

Ann Patchett:

I would say spring. We do a really good job with Spring here in Nashville. We do a bad job with summer. We really do a pretty bad job with winter but we do absolutely class AAA job with Spring. And we can do a good job with fall. That depends on the rain.

Karen Farmer:

Okay.

Craig Silva:

It’s beautiful here right now.

Ann Patchett:

Right now it is absolutely lovely, but it’s really dry. So if it’s too dry for too long, the leaves will be green and then they’ll just croak and fall off the trees. If we get some rain, then we can have a real fire show.

Craig Silva:

Nice.

Karen Farmer:

Awesome. Yeah.

Craig Silva:

Well we have made it to the end of the podcast

Karen Farmer:

The first ever lightning round.

Craig Silva:

Yes. Thank you for our inaugural Libro Lightning round.

Ann Patchett:

You did such a good job, You were really great. And I kept waiting for your favorite audiobook question.

Craig Silva:

Yeah. Thank you for bringing us there.

Ann Patchett:

Yeah guys

Karen Farmer:

We buried the lead on that one.

Ann Patchett:

We really pushed the product up front.

Karen Farmer:

We are clearly.

Ann Patchett:

That’s what I’m doing. You’ve gotta learn to be the mascara. That’s your mantra. I will be the mascara. I will push the product up.

Craig Silva:

That is the quote of the podcast.

Karen Farmer:

This is good. The name of the episode.

Ann Patchett:

Even mascara you wanna see in the world.

Craig Silva:

 Oh my God. Well, thank you so much, not only for being on the podcast, but letting us use your amazing bookstore as a location and letting us pet your dog.

Ann Patchett:

Hey, it’s been a blast and you know I will always follow in Emma Straub’s shoes. Where she goes, I will follow

Karen Farmer:

Thank you so much. This has been wonderful, and it’s only 10 o’clock in the morning. This day is just gonna be amazing.

Craig Silva:

Well we do have to go to the opera and picnic and open up.

Ann Patchett:

Opry

Craig Silva:

Oh!

Ann Patchett:

If you’re going to the opera, you’re going back to New York. If you are going to the opry, then you’re in Nashville.

Craig Silva:

Okay.

Karen Farmer:

Okay! The grand ole opry.

Craig Silva:

There goes my trying to pass myself off as a local, where is my free cookie.

Ann Patchett:

Oh, actually this is a great story. I’m just gonna stick this one in the end. You can edit it out. Rita Wilson, this was right before the pandemic was singing at the Opry. And so Tom said, Come to the Opry. And because we have three hours in between sets where we’re just sitting in the back. So my husband and I went, my husband had never been to the Opry before. And they have a warm-up person who’s like, hey everybody who’s from DC Woo. And she goes around to all the different states and everybody’s shouting. And she’s like, Okay, I know there’s nobody in the house from Tennessee. And there wasn’t. And we did not go woo woo, but it’s incredible. No one in Nashville goes to the Opry. So unlike the picnic where it’s only people who live here. The Opry, nobody lives here. But it’s really fun.

Craig Silva:

That’s interesting. Why is that You think?

Ann Patchett:

We’re tired of it. It’s been around forever. And have you had a goo goo cluster?

Craig Silva:

I don’t know what that is

Ann Patchett:

Okay, that’s the official candy of the ground of the Opry, say goo goo for candy. That’s the app.

Craig Silva:

Okay. It doesn’t kill you, does it? No,

Ann Patchett:

It’s like a turtle.

Karen Farmer:

Oh yes. Okay.

Ann Patchett:

Marshmallow, caramel chocolate, they’re really quite delicious.

Craig Silva:

A goo goo cluster?

Ann Patchett:

A goo goo cluster

Craig Silva:

<laugh>.

Ann Patchett:

Okay. Just the way you’re saying that

Karen Farmer:

Craig has,

Ann Patchett:

You’re doomed.

Karen Farmer:

Very skeptical look on his face

Ann Patchett:

If you go to the country Music Hall of Fame, that is tremendous. It is a museum of sound. It is the most interesting museum. It has the best gift shop in Nashville where you can buy a black t-shirt that says cash in rhinestones on the front, which is really what you want. You got a hatch show Prince, which is in the building of the country Music Hall of Fame. And that’s where they have all the old broadsides from the old ground of the Opry shows.

Karen Farmer:

Oh cool.

Ann Patchett:

And then right across the street is the goo goo store. You can buy goo goos anywhere. You can get them in a gas station. It’s like goo goos are to Nashville as licorice is to Iceland

Karen Farmer:

Okay!

Craig Silva:

Gotcah! You’re the goo goo capital of the world.

Ann Patchett:

But if you go to the goo goo store, you can get a little onesie that says, I say goo goo on it. It’s really great.

Craig Silva:

I don’t know if I could order it with a straight face. Give me your finest goo goo.

Ann Patchett:

You don’t have to say anything. You just pick it up and take it to the cash.

Karen Farmer:

There’s no

Ann Patchett:

Asking you to talk about

Karen Farmer:

No conversation needed

Ann Patchett:

Like a Snickers bar.

Craig Silva:

I have my microphone. I’m like

Ann Patchett:

<laugh>, <laugh>

Craig Silva:

Doing a podcast

Karen Farmer:

If this happens later today, I will film it and I will send you the footage so that we can all see how Craig’s with this.

Craig Silva:

He’ll laugh at me.

Karen Farmer:

Yeah.

Craig Silva:

I’m going to the opera and getting a Goo Goo

Ann Patchett:

Also if you have the chance…

Ann Patchett:

Opre

Ann Patchett:

Opry. Yeah. Don’t say opera. Yeah, you just, it’s like you put a target on your back. You can also go to the Parthenon.

Karen Farmer:

Oh Yes. So, my family is from Kentucky and the Parthenon is the one thing I remember about being in Nashville many years ago. And I kind of wondered if I had dreamt it, but this is real right?

Ann Patchett:

Did you see the giant statue of Athena? Did you go inside?

Karen Farmer:

I didn’t go inside

Ann Patchett:

The largest indoor statue in the world. Friends, I’m giving you all my hot tourist scripts. It’ll take you exactly four minutes round trip from your car to walk in, buy a ticket, see that statue. It will change your life.

Karen Farmer:

Awesome.

Ann Patchett:

You will call me up and say, Ann Patchett, thank you. I don’t know what to make of that, but thank you for bringing this to me

Karen Farmer:

But it has happened. Okay. We must do this today.

Craig Silva:

We have so many afternoon plans. I’m tired already. Yeah,

Ann Patchett:

Get outta here.

Craig Silva:

<laugh>,

Ann Patchett:

Pack up your microphones and go. You’ve got an agenda.

Craig Silva:

Well, on that note, I think that is the perfect way to end this podcast.

Karen Farmer:

Thank you so much.

Ann Patchett:

Thank you.

Karen Farmer:

This has been amazing.

Ann Patchett:

Bye bye!

Karen Farmer:

Thanks for listening to our interview everyone. Craig and I as always would like to talk about what audiobooks we are listening to and enjoying but before we do, I had a story that I wanted to tell, and I’m sorry, Craig, you’ve heard this three times. I think I texted you as soon as this happened, but I’m just really excited

Craig Silva:

You know what? I love this story. I’m here for it.

Karen Farmer:

So last weekend I went to Literati in Ann Arbor, which is my favorite bookstore. And I go there way too much all the time. I went last night too.

Craig Silva:

You go there constantly

Karen Farmer:

I know, it’s wonderful. I love it there and on this particular day, however, I was purchasing, amongst other things, Kiese Laymon’s book, Heavy, from a band of books table. And the book seller, as I was checking out, said, I just listened to a really great podcast episode about banned books and Kiese was on it. And I said, what podcast was it? And they were like, Oh, I can’t remember. It had a bunch of other people on it. I then said, Was it the Libro fm podcast? And they said, Yes! Do you listen to that one too? And I was like, I’m Karen. And then we had a lovely moment and it was amazing. And I was so excited and floating on a little cloud after that moment that I then rolled my ankle in the street walking with the book in my hand.

Craig Silva:

My God. How is your ankle doing, by the way?

Karen Farmer:

It’s fine. It was important. It kept me from getting an ego about. So when listening to our podcast, I guess

Craig Silva:

I love that.

Karen Farmer:

Anyway, I just thank you, wonderful book Seller at literati for listening to our podcast. If you’re hearing this episode, thank you for making my day.

Craig Silva:

The next time you go in there, if they do hear this, it’s gonna be even a weirder moment

Karen Farmer:

Like stop talking about me. Anyway, Craig, I would love to know more about what you are currently reading and enjoying.

Craig Silva:

I am reading, and I apologize if I screw up this pronunciation, but I am reading a man called Uve, which is by Frederick Bachman. I had read his other book, Anxious People a while ago and somehow missed this one. So this book’s actually not new. It’s a few years old, but when we were in Nashville and sitting in the Airbnb and I think at 10 o’clock, everyone was like, We’re so tired, we should go to bed. And then somehow we started talking about books and we were all sitting on the rug in the living room and then did that for three hours. So everyone was exhausted the next morning. But it was so fun.

Karen Farmer:

So for everyone who’s listening, you can now rest assured that working at Libro fm is exactly what you think it is. We just talk about books all the time.

Craig Silva:

Yes, it was amazing. It was such a lovely moment. But this book came up and I think you, Maddie, Alyssa, three people were like, I loved this book. So I added it to my to-be-read pile and that’s what I just read. And it was really fun. It’s basically about this old man who’s going through a really big bout of grief and he’s like a grumpy old man who yells at everybody in his housing area and he’s really crotchety and really a stickler for the rules and old school and this new young family moves in beside him and yada yada yada. It’s like a very uplifting type of story that has a lot of tough parts too though. And it’s a movie as well, which is fun. I really liked the movie actually. It was a very rare time that a movie does a good job, I think of adapting, there you go. Adapting a book. I love books that have movie adaptations. One of my favorite things to do is sit there and pause the movie and say “You know in the book, this is actually what happened”. It’s a little bit different.

Karen Farmer:

You sound really fun to watch movies with.

Craig Silva:

Oh, the worst, the absolute worst

Craig Silva:

If you love a grumpy old man, pausing a movie to complain 50 times, I am a great person to watch a movie with otherwise.

Karen Farmer:

Awesome!

Craig Silva:

 Just whispering in a theater, this is different than the movie. This is different than the book.

Karen Farmer:

Get this guy outta here.

Craig Silva:

Yep. That would be me. What about you? What are you reading right now?

Karen Farmer:

So in preparation for our future recording, am I allowed to say this with the Schwab

Craig Silva:

Cat is out of the Bag? Yes. This is the highlight of my life right now. Listeners, we had emailed the Schwabs people because that is my dream guest, and they didn’t respond right away and I was sad. And then weeks later it was like, Sorry for the delay, she’s down. And that’s like the best thing that’s ever happened.

Karen Farmer:

I thought Craig was gonna actually die

Craig Silva:

Oh, I did. I’m a ghost now. Unfortunately it’s not until June or something. So we have plenty of time to prepare.

Karen Farmer:

You can get your fanboy act together between now and then so that you don’t like weep

Craig Silva:

I think that I cannot get my act together actually.

Karen Farmer:

No amount of time great enough to prepare

Craig Silva:

Yes. But that gives you time to read all the books.

Karen Farmer:

Yeah. Well you know what, Extra credit for me, I’m a great student. I started early. I am reading Vicious and I love it. I am slowly reading it. I’m savoring it one chapter at a time.

Craig Silva:

That’s how I like to read books as well one chapter at a time. It’s quite hard to read multiple chapters at the same time.

Karen Farmer:

You know what I mean? Come on. Anyway!

Craig Silva:

Well there is a sequel, so you’ll have a little bit more Victor and Eli to read when you’re done.

Karen Farmer:

One of my favorite things about Victor is that he is basically an expert and found poetry. He’s doing these erasures of letters and things in his home. And that is a way that I also love to write poetry so lots of relatable content.

Craig Silva:

It’s even better than that. It’s not letters in his home, it’s his parents’ self-help books that he hates.

Karen Farmer:

Oh, his parents. Yes. So good

Craig Silva:

I love those books. And I’m not a big fan of superhero things at all. I don’t like Marvel movies. I mean to each their own. I’m glad those movies exist and people love them, but they’re not for me. And I wouldn’t say this is a superhero book, but it definitely dips its toes into that territory. And I still love it

Karen farmer:

For sure

Craig Silva:

Because E Schwab does know wrong

Karen Farmer:

Because E Schwab period. End of sentence

Craig Silva:

Yes. Well that’s awesome. I’m glad you’re getting to enjoy those books. I can’t wait to hear what you think about them.

Karen Farmer:

Well, thank you. And what is the stuff we say at the end?

Craig Silva:

If you wanna listen to Vicious, you can…

Karen Farmer:

If you want to listen to any of these books that we discussed sound interesting to you also in Patrick’s books, all of the books, you can listen to them on libro fm. If you haven’t started a membership yet, you can do so using promo code libro podcast and you will get an extra free credit when you start your membership. So it’s two books for your first month Vicious and the sequel in month one. You can do it

Craig Silva:

Yes. I love that. That’s what everyone should do with that promo code. You’ll support VE Schwab and your local bookstore. On that note, thanks for listening everyone.